[16:45] Rob: http://banagale.com/
[16:46] Bryan: ha...you have the same CD player as me
[16:46] Bryan: just the newer model
 [16:49] Bryan: you know
[16:49] Bryan: that’s just a rant
[16:49] Bryan: you make it seem like you are going to prove your disc player is better than an iPod
[16:49] Bryan: ipod
[16:49] Bryan: but you really don’t
[16:49] Rob:  I do.
[16:50] Rob: http://banagale.com/why-my-sony-walkman-d-ne320-is-better-than-your-ipod-could-ever-be.htm#more-17
[16:50] Bryan: not really
[16:50] Bryan: your saying you don’t like ACC files
[16:50] Bryan: and your Discman can play them
[16:51] Bryan: but its not like the ipod only plays ACC files
t an album into a playlist on itunes
[16:51] Rob: m4a
 [16:51] Bryan: yeah that’s ACC
[16:52] Bryan: m4a = ACC
[16:52] Bryan: same thing
[16:52] Bryan: hardly any of the music on my ipod is ACC
[16:52] Rob: anything you buy is.
[16:52] Rob: and new cud’s you rip are.
[16:52] Bryan: no
[16:52] Bryan: that’s not true
[16:53] Bryan: yes, the itunes music store is ACC
[16:53] Bryan: but I would say that the majority of ipod users don’t buy all their music from there...
[16:53] Bryan: probably most of them buy the occasional song
[16:53] Bryan: but few buy all their music and full albums from there
[16:53] Rob: But I can't take the music off of your ipod
[16:53] Bryan: you can
[16:53] Rob: from my house.
[16:53] Bryan: you just need the crack
 [16:53] Rob: that doesn't count.
[16:53] Bryan: yeah
[16:53] Bryan: I mean...its not the perfect unit
[16:54] Bryan: but its not like its impossible
[16:54] Rob: no it's far from perfect.
[16:54] Bryan: you have to install this simple program on your computer
[16:54] Bryan: and you can transfer music
[16:54] Rob: ya but that is illegal.
[16:54] Bryan: so is Oink
[16:54] Bryan: so was Napster
[16:54] Rob: so the argument is invalid.
[16:54] Rob: right
[16:54] Rob: they are illegal
[16:54] Rob: but I’m talking about functionality here.
[16:54] Rob: if you copy an unprotected song onto your ipod
[16:54] Rob: you should be able to copy that shit right back off
[16:54] Rob: anywhere you want.
[16:55] Bryan: yeah. I understand
[16:55] Bryan: but if that’s your only argument man
[16:55] Bryan: you can do it
[16:55] Bryan: and its not like apple will come knocking at your door
[16:55] Bryan: cause it’s not an internet thing
[16:55] Bryan: yes true, it’s not an offered feature
[16:55] Rob: very few people will actually do this though.
[16:55] Bryan: BUT
[16:55] Rob: what I really didn't hit on though
[16:55] Bryan: it is built into the ipod that this can happen
[16:55] Rob: which I should add
[16:55] Rob: is that the devices are really poor technology
[16:55] Bryan: it’s just not an active feature
[16:56] Rob: and that apple is working towards building hardware that allows them to exploit their media business.
[16:56] Rob: see they are building ipods to make money.
[16:56] Rob: not to innovate
[16:56] Rob: they are anti-consumer.
[16:56] Bryan: that are a company
[16:56] Rob: I realize that.
[16:56] Bryan: all companies are in it for money
[16:56] Bryan: they are doing their share of innovation
[16:56] Rob: but people have an unrealistic zeal for the player.
[16:56] Bryan: with their technology
[16:56] Bryan: this is a MP3 player
[16:57] Rob: they've done little to innovate since the first gen.
[16:57] Rob: very very little
[16:57] Rob: and it is incredibly closed.
[16:57] Bryan: right, they are bell and whistling the iPod
[16:57] Rob: you can't hack it
[16:57] Bryan: ipod
[16:57] Bryan: but you can hack the ipod
[16:57] Bryan: that’s the point
[16:57] Rob: you can't go in and write your own menuing system
[16:57] Rob: or your own apps
[16:57] Bryan: actually you can
[16:58] Bryan: nothing major has been written
[16:58] Bryan: but I saw a program recently that allowed the itunes visualization to play on an iPod
[16:58] Bryan: ipod
[16:58] Bryan: you know the little dancing light show you can have when music plays
[16:58] Bryan: some dude wrote it and hacked it
[16:59] Bryan: I’m just saying...its seems your only qualm that can stand is that you cant transfer music back and forth...which sure sucks
[16:59] Bryan: but...you know
[16:59] Rob: but apple doesn't condone it at all.
[16:59] Bryan: that’s how they did it
[17:00] Bryan: of course not
[17:00] Rob: it's not like lego
[17:00] Bryan: you know why
[17:00] Rob: Lego initially reacted against hacking of their adult set
[17:00] Rob: but then decided to allow it
[17:00] Rob: now there's this huge community for the product.
[17:00] Bryan: because the hundreds of thousands of artists would go nuts
[17:00] Bryan: and it would be this big suit
[17:00] Rob: not hack at the licensing
[17:00] Rob: hack at the OS and applications
[17:00] Rob: just the ability to compile software to run on the ipod
[17:00] Rob: should be something they should provide.
[17:01] Rob: it's called an SDK.
[17:01] Bryan: I think its coming more and more...with the new video ipods
[17:01] Bryan: more shit will be coming out
[17:01] Bryan: I mean, I understand your complaint
[17:01] Rob: not because apple has seen the light, they're headed in the wrong direction.
[17:01] Rob: and their reason is because they have control over the media.
[17:01] Rob: and the media is their money source now, not hardware.
[17:01] Bryan: but like...your rant saying your CD player is better than an ipod
[17:01] Bryan: I just don’t see it
[17:01] Rob: because my cd player is not buying into any of that.
[17:02] Rob: none of it
[17:02] Rob: it is cheap, it allows me to burn cd's use them throw them away, pass them on whatever I want.
[17:02] Rob: no licensing, no oversight.
[17:02] Bryan: yeah, but passing them on can be illegal
[17:02] Rob: right
[17:02] Rob: but Sony doesn’t stop me from doing that.
[17:02] Rob: so it's ok.
[17:03] Bryan: so your saying, because apple doesn’t condone illegal activity
[17:03] Bryan: they suck?
[17:03] Rob: it's not that they don't condone it
[17:03] Rob: Sony doesn't want me to do that either
[17:03] Rob: or rather my complaint isn’t because of that.
[17:04] Rob: it's because they prevent me from doing something legal
[17:04] Rob: if my cd is full of Bryan’s band's performances
[17:04] Rob: and b's band has an open license to distribute the tunes
[17:04] Rob: i want to be able to do that.
[17:04] Bryan: ok BUT
[17:05] Bryan: you have my tunes 
[17:05] Bryan: on your computer
[17:05] Bryan: so you can send them, you can burn them
[17:05] Bryan: yada yada
[17:05] Rob: but the ipod is a lockbox
[17:05] Rob: they go in, but not back out again.
[17:05] Bryan: but, if you want to share shit
[17:05] Bryan: its not like itunes doesn’t let you burn a CD
[17:06] Rob: right, but they do sell you sub par quality tracks
[17:06] Rob: at full price.
[17:06] Rob: they should be flac or better.
[17:06] Bryan: ok, but those tracks, are licensed
[17:06] Rob: 32 bit trac
[17:06] Bryan: they are = to 192 MP3s
[17:06] Bryan: yes lossy
[17:06] Bryan: but, its not like they hide that
[17:07] Rob: right that is bullshit though
[17:07] Rob: see this is what I’m saying
[17:07] Bryan: and now they’ve introduced apple lossless
[17:07] Rob: the ipod sucks
[17:07] Bryan: which ill guarantee they will integrate into itunes
[17:07] Rob: because people are buying in to this whole process
[17:07] Rob: they have this circus they run
[17:07] Rob: which is driven by clever marketing
[17:07] Bryan: see...I don’t get this mind set though
[17:07] Rob: when really they're damaging artists, monopolizing online music distribution
[17:07] Rob: and hurting consumers.
[17:07] Bryan: cause I love the way my ipod works
[17:08] Bryan: I have all my music to listen to
[17:08] Bryan: if I happen to want to pass something off 
[17:08] Bryan: I burn it, or email it
[17:08] Bryan: etc
[17:08] Rob: right
[17:08] Rob: there are a number of problems
[17:08] Rob: first the music they sell is overpriced
[17:08] Rob: second I think the technology sucks.
[17:08] Bryan: fine, but you don’t have to buy their music
[17:08] Rob: right but you're buying into it whether you like it or not.
[17:08] Bryan: and albums are cheaper to buy on itunes
[17:08] Bryan: than in the music store
[17:08] Rob: you can't have the ipod w/o the itunes
[17:08] Rob: without a hack
[17:08] Bryan: yes you can
[17:09] Bryan: ipod works with itunes or musicmatch
[17:09] Bryan: no hack
[17:09] Rob: it's the same thing though.
[17:09] Bryan: no
[17:09] Bryan: not at all
[17:09] Bryan: apple doesn’t make music match
[17:09] Rob: it is basically the same thing.
[17:09] Bryan: eh...how do you figure
[17:09] Bryan: musicmatch is the winamp competitor
[17:10] Rob: winamp doesn't mess with licensing.
[17:10] Rob: or drm management.
[17:10] Bryan: you cant honestly think that apple is going to sell licensed music and not have protection on it
[17:11] Rob: no
[17:11] Bryan: its pretty much demanded by the artists
[17:11] Rob: the protection is ok
[17:11] Rob: but that's another point
[17:11] Rob: they refuse to license fairplay
[17:11] Rob: because they want a stranglehold on the hardware market.
[17:11] Rob: which hinders competition
[17:11] Rob: and allows generation after generation of ipods with no new features
[17:11] Rob: like wireless sharing or previewing
[17:11] Bryan: well...I wouldn’t say that
[17:12] Bryan: they're are plenty of new features
[17:12] Rob: if you call the micro or the video great new features
[17:12] Bryan: just not the ones you want
[17:12] Rob: right
[17:12] Rob: they aren't actually what consumers SHOULD want
[17:12] Rob: they just don't know any better.
[17:12] Bryan: well depends
[17:12] Bryan: take the new ipods
[17:12] Bryan: they have a battery life now of 25 hours
[17:12] Bryan: that’s way more than they used to have
[17:12] Rob: extended battery life is not a feature.
[17:12] Bryan: and I bet that’s one of the biggest things consumers wanted
[17:12] Bryan: sure it is
[17:12] Rob: ok
[17:13] Bryan: if you poll 100 people
[17:13] Rob: fair enough.
[17:13] Bryan: ok
[17:13] Rob: but consumers are wrong
[17:13] Bryan: the new ipods
[17:13] Bryan: flash memory
[17:13] Bryan: in the nano so far
[17:13] Rob: you see this is people who are already engaged in the current paradigm.
[17:13] Bryan: 4 gig of flash memory isn’t something to roll your eyes at
[17:13] Rob: they aren’t thinking of what they could have if apple didn't have complete control over the mp3 player market.
[17:13] Rob: dude it is
[17:13] Bryan: it really isn’t
[17:13] Rob: fuck that.  apple's 4 gigs of flash is not that big of a deal
[17:13] Bryan: look into it
[17:14] Bryan: they almost released the new 30 and 60 gigs with flash memory
[17:14] Bryan: but they weren’t ready yes
[17:14] Rob: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/15/apple_nano_analysis/
[17:14] Bryan: yet
[17:14] Bryan: I know this because my cousin works there
[17:14] Bryan: they went to a full color screen
[17:14] Bryan: that’s another feature people want
[17:14] Rob: dude
[17:14] Rob: that is so retarded.
[17:14] Rob: I’m sorry
[17:14] Bryan: its not though
[17:15] Rob: but a full color screen is really stupid.
[17:15] Bryan: cause you have to understand
[17:15] Bryan: we are a very small percentage of the buying market
[17:15] Rob: these are fucking bells and whistles
[17:15] Bryan: my 14 year old cousin who wants an iPod
[17:15] Bryan: she couldn’t give a fuck about wireless connection
[17:15] Rob: I’d like to compare this to handheld video games
[17:15] Bryan: she wants a long battery, a bigger hard drive, a color screen, and a cute case
[17:15] Rob: you have Sony, Nintendo and potentially Microsoft squaring off.
[17:15] Rob: ok
[17:16] Rob: if mp3 players innovated at the rate of hand held video games
[17:16] Bryan: ok
[17:16] Rob: over the past 5 years
[17:16] Rob: we would have some really fucking cool mp3 players.
[17:16] Rob: we don't
[17:16] Bryan: I think we do
[17:16] Rob: ok, I disagree.
[17:16] Bryan: compared to the MP3 players we had 5 years ago
[17:16] Rob: nothing has fucking changed.
[17:16] Rob: color screen
[17:16] Rob: bigger drives
[17:16] Rob: longer battery
[17:16] Rob: video
[17:16] Rob: fuck those features.
[17:16] Rob: seriously
[17:16] Rob: any company could have done that
[17:17] Bryan: video games
[17:17] Bryan: better graphics
[17:17] Bryan: faster processors
[17:17] Rob: wireless networking.
[17:17] Rob: DVD level movies
[17:17] Bryan: you don’t think that apple isn’t working on wireless shit for ipods?
[17:17] Rob: yes
[17:17] Bryan: your out of your mind if you think that
[17:17] Rob: I think they are not working on it
[17:17] Rob: because if they were
[17:17] Rob: if they even cared a little bit
[17:18] Rob: it would be out
[17:18] Rob: but they won't
[17:18] Rob: they won't until some other vendor like Samsung
[17:18] Rob: puts out an ipod killer.
[17:18] Rob: this is exactly what happened with their computer market.
[17:18] Rob: they wouldn't license the hardware because they are greedy bastards.
[17:18] Rob: and it killed them
[17:18] Rob: Macs are a joke in business.
[17:18] Rob: if they just opened up fairplay
[17:19] Rob: companies would start putting out itunes compatible players
[17:19] Bryan: ok...but let me ask you this
[17:19] Rob: that would be cheaper, and have better features than ipods.
[17:19] Bryan: clearly ipods are the best selling MP3 players on the market
[17:19] Bryan: correct?
[17:19] Rob: right.
[17:19] Bryan: ok
[17:20] Bryan: without a competing MP3 player apple has no reason to release a major groundbreaking innovation in MP3 players
[17:20] Rob: right
[17:20] Bryan: that’s just bad business IMO
[17:20] Rob: it is
[17:20] Rob: it is really bad business.
[17:20] Bryan: for all we know
[17:20] Rob: for consumers
[17:20] Rob: great for them.
[17:20] Bryan: apple has a new ipod
[17:20] Rob: oh fuck ya
[17:20] Rob: of course
[17:20] Rob: they have the R&D to put out something genuinely cool.
[17:20] Rob: but they will milk this shit until it dries up
[17:21] Rob: then release an incremental addition
[17:21] Rob: like the micro
[17:21] Bryan: so its not really so much as apple, as other companies that need pressure
[17:21] Rob: then the video
[17:21] Bryan: exactly
[17:21] Rob: which is another example of why they are fuckers
[17:21] Bryan: no
[17:21] Rob: they put out the micro
[17:21] Bryan: that’s just smart business
[17:21] Rob: sold that to a bunch of tools
[17:21] Rob: then dropped the video a few weeks later.
[17:21] Bryan: creative has a decent MP3 player
[17:21] Rob: my uncle was fucking pissed
[17:21] Rob: he bought a micro for his daughter
[17:21] Bryan: it started competing a little bit with ipod
[17:21] Rob: ya it is other people's faults, but technology is driven by consumers
[17:22] Bryan: so ipod added some new stuff to compete more with it
[17:22] Rob: consumers are blindly support itunes and apple because they don't know better.
[17:22] Bryan: but as soon as someone comes out with something that blows the ipod out of the water
[17:22] Rob: ipod will come back
[17:22] Bryan: you can count on a new ipod like a week later
[17:22] Rob: with some bullshit.
[17:22] Rob: exactly
[17:22] Rob: so as consumers
[17:22] Bryan: nothing can blow it out of the water yet
[17:22] Rob: we have a responsibility 
[17:22] Rob: to recognize this situation
[17:22] Rob: and not buy into the status quo
[17:22] Bryan: well, that’s all well and good
[17:23] Rob: informed consumers should not support apple in what it is doing right now.
[17:23] Bryan: but your trying to shape the way this consumer nation has functioned for the past 50 years
[17:23] Rob: I think my biggest problem
[17:23] Rob: is that people have an unnatural belief that apple is a good company, and that itunes are great.
[17:23] Rob: when in fact apple is an anti-consumer, anti-artist company.
[17:24] Bryan: well, I do think apple is a good company
[17:24] Bryan: can they be better? yes
[17:24] Rob: and the ipod is an outdated piece of crap that is gold plated
[17:24] Bryan: I don’t think that’s the case
[17:24] Bryan: cause no one has anything better
[17:24] Rob: in large part because of the marketing of the ipod.
[17:24] Rob: I mean they are geniuses
[17:24] Bryan: you say that
[17:24] Bryan: but
[17:24] Bryan: creative
[17:24] Rob: but this is not good for people.
[17:24] Rob: it is not good for me.
[17:24] Bryan: they've got a good foot in the corner
[17:25] Bryan: their a sizeable company
[17:25] Rob: I don't like the ipod and how it mixes with itunes.
[17:25] Bryan: you’ve made that clear
[17:25] Rob: I want better technology.
[17:25] Rob: for a cheaper price
[17:25] Bryan: but even you were uniformed about that
[17:25] Bryan: you thought anything I rip new to my itunes would be in ACC
[17:25] Bryan: when in fact I can rip it to lossless
[17:25] Bryan: (WAV)
[17:25] Rob: But how does it default?
[17:26] Bryan: I have mine set to rip to 256 MP3
[17:26] Rob: does it default to mp3?
[17:26] Rob: or wav?
[17:26] Bryan: honestly I couldn’t tell you, iv had mine set for so long
[17:26] Rob: take a wild fucking guess.
[17:26] Bryan: you don’t have to set it when you open itunes
[17:26] Bryan: I set it once
[17:26] Bryan: and everything rips that way
[17:26] Bryan: if I want to change it, I change it
[17:27] Rob: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,123852,00.asp
[17:27] Rob: the reason so many people search using MS and yahoo and aol
[17:27] Rob: is because they can't figure out how to change their default page.
[17:27] Rob: you do not count b
[17:27] Rob: you're not part of who I’m talking about.
[17:27] Bryan: yeah, but for the SAME reason you just mentioned
[17:28] Bryan: people don’t care about the stuff you and I want to see with MP3 players
[17:28] Bryan: they care about the simple stuff
[17:28] Rob: and those people are screwing it up.
[17:28] Bryan: but those people are 90% of the market
[17:28] Bryan: maybe more
[17:28] Rob: I hate them.
[17:28] Bryan: LOL